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Lowest hanging fruit on scout cars?

Discussion in 'General Pinewood Derby Discussion' started by karlaj, Nov 21, 2020.

  1. Loud2ns

    Loud2ns District Champion

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    So in 2018 my daughter and son's cars were about 11/16 Com which was about .8oz on the dfw. They both ran 1.5" of steer. I don't remember their wheelbase. They ran ok on our church track which is custom built with a gentle transition. We ran test runs on a Freedom track and they were wiggly buggers. Added 2.5" to hers which settled it down. Added 1.5" to his and it needed more.
    Alot of variables working together in these little cars........that's what you find in that rabbit hole!
     
  2. karlaj

    karlaj Pinewood Ninja

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    Loud, that’s helpful, thank you. I’m very much an numbers guy. I don’t have the scale array, so COM is all I’ve got for now.
     
  3. Mojo Racing

    Mojo Racing National Contender Pro Racer

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    You are safe with 4" over 4' as a general rule. If the track is wood or rough, I would go 5".

    When I give presentations to the local packs, I usually get a parent or two every year who mentions using the treadmill, because they saw it on YouTube. I tell them that they would do less damage dragging their cub's car behind their car, going down the road. LOL It always gives me a giggle when I see their expression. o_O
     
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  4. karlaj

    karlaj Pinewood Ninja

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    LOL! That's almost cruel! But, I'm sure you get the gasp/chuckle combo from folks!

    Now that I know I was running with basically 0" steer, 4" seems very reasonable to start with. Wish we had a track, but I'm happy to use y'all's wisdom and experience.

    Y'all have been super helpful so far, and I really appreciate everyone taking the time to school me.
     
  5. bracketracer

    bracketracer PWD Royalty Pro Racer

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    You can always use Sailkote on the axles instead of Pledge. It contains no silicone and is a dry lube so it sounds like it would meet your rules?
     
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  6. karlaj

    karlaj Pinewood Ninja

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    I looked into Sailkote—You’re right, it’s another option. The MSDS shows it’s a bit nastier than pledge, so I’m not thrilled about having it around. But it seems easy enough to use. Do you have experience with it, Bracket? And thanks!

    and, what’s the difference in time btw a pledge/sailkote axle and simply polished (brasso) and graphite’d axle? I ask bc I need to focus on big stuff before I start chasing all the other thousandths. (I’m guessing I need to buy the premium membership? ;-) )
     
  7. bracketracer

    bracketracer PWD Royalty Pro Racer

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    We used Sailkote the last few years my boys were in cub scouts, I tested Pledge but since it has silicone we never ran it in competition since our rules prohibit silicone. I only found a few thousandths with Pledge, Sailkote ran right there with it. We found more speed with doing things to make the car more stable than anything. That's where most scout cars fall short IMHO. Try to limit how much material gets removed during the axle polishing process. Check your axle hole alignment on the rears closely. A couple pin gages and solid 1-2-3 blocks on a surface plate can help identify issues with the drill.
     
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  8. Mojo Racing

    Mojo Racing National Contender Pro Racer

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    Your pack specifically prohibited silicone? Do they do a post race teardown testing for silicone? That seems kind of crazy
     
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  9. Loud2ns

    Loud2ns District Champion

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    That's an interesting thought about post race test. If using pledge with graphite you apply then wipe off with a cloth. I'm not sure if any test could show so little that would be left on the axle. I'm not one to flaunt rules, but still think your ok if your not using it as a lubricant.
    A thought could be if not comfortable just doing it. Prep an axle ahead of time and hand it to your race director/inspector and ask if this would be legal to race with?
     
  10. karlaj

    karlaj Pinewood Ninja

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    I think you could justify or object to this and many other stupid rules a number of different ways. From what I can tell, y'all have beaten that horse dead many times over.

    Thank you Bracket for bringing info on a) how much speed is given up with/without coating, and b) that your options (sailkote and pledge) perform the same. Also, that there's bigger gains in stabilizing the car, which is relatively free speed. I'm still chasing many 0.01's, and I feel silly that it's so hard to find them...
     
  11. Loud2ns

    Loud2ns District Champion

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    Stupid horse!!

    You're in a good spot to catch some hundredths. Alot of good advice in this thread........on this site!
     
  12. TRE

    TRE PWD Royalty Pro Race Winner Pro Racer

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    If your alignment wheels and prep arent good...it doesnt matter what lube you use
     
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  13. bracketracer

    bracketracer PWD Royalty Pro Racer

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    Well, our pack used to have a four touching rule but otherwise just copy & pasted the district rules each year. I removed the four down rule when I started running the pack race so the kids could go to districts without changing their cars. No idea why the district prohibited silicone but I would have to assume that somebody brought a car drenched in silicone and fouled the track so they outright banned it? Or maybe they just heard a rumor about somebody two counties over that had that happen so it was a preemptive ban? Once I started in league racing, my kids had no problem building fast scout cars so not using Pledge was never an issue. Other entries may or may not have had Pledge but there was never a post race teardown that I saw. The district race chairman when we started was an ex-league racer so not much got by him, the later track crews lacked his experience and let some questionable cars race from what I saw. They really tore up second through fourth or fifth place at districts but they never could quite get the win.......
     
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