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Stupid questions

Discussion in 'Ask The Pros' started by Psychitsu, Jan 11, 2019.

  1. Psychitsu

    Psychitsu Pack Champion

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    What exactly does burnishing with graphite mean, what do you use to do it, and how do you do it? What are the steps of graphite prep? Is packing graphite a good thing? If so, is mixing it with alcohol good, bad, or does it not really matter? Any and all input is greatly appreciated. I wouldn’t use graphite if I didn’t have to. I just don’t want my son to lose because I can’t figure out something basic. Thank you.
     
  2. "The Fonze"

    "The Fonze" District Champion Pro Racer

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    I wouldn’t mix it with alcohol
     
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  3. DerbyDad4Hire

    DerbyDad4Hire Administrator Staff Member 25+ Pro Race Wins! National Champion

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    Starts with a good prep on the wheels. After that you are just trying to "smear" graphite into the wheelbore and on the contact surfaces. A smooth pin gauge can be rolled in the wheelbore to coat it with graphite.
     
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  4. FDM

    FDM District Champion

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    Talking about burnishing, how does the DD4H graphite work for that? We always use another brand for the burnish and use DD4H graphite to lube the wheels further. I did this because when we spin a wheel which has the DD4H graphite it sounded more harsh than with the other graphite which always sounded much quieter. This made us a bit anxious to burnish with DD4H graphite in the fear of scratching our freshly prepped bores. Another interesting observation was that on our wooden test track after applying the DD4H graphite the car would be fast for 1-2 runs and then slow down, I would put new DD4H graphite on, nothing changes, I put the other brand on, bam car gets faster again then drops of after 1-2 runs, put more of the other brand on, no change, put DD4H graphite on, bam faster again. No idea what is going on here, but when we race the car in the competition on an aluminum track the times stay really flat. We prep our wheels and axles with the DD4H products and use pledge for the axles. Any idea what is going on?
     
  5. Psychitsu

    Psychitsu Pack Champion

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    Thank you. I was afraid I was missing some in depth process. Does contact surfaces include the wood on the side of the car? If so, what is a good way to do that? As for the insides of the wheels do you prefer a snug fitting gage or a bit looser? I understand the wheel prep thanks to your Black Ice video. Thank you for all the help and amazing products!
     
  6. DerbyDad4Hire

    DerbyDad4Hire Administrator Staff Member 25+ Pro Race Wins! National Champion

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    Not snug. I mix graphite with glue and then sand the crap out of it till it is smooth and slick.
     
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  7. Derek Konrad

    Derek Konrad Hammering Axles

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    Has anyone attempted this technique to pack graphite into a wheel bore?

    It looks promising since the graphite will remain packed and fit to the axle
     
  8. Jimmy & his 2 Kids

    Jimmy & his 2 Kids National Contender

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    As already stated, burnish wheel bore with pin gauge and don’t mix it with alcohol and make a magic paste to pack your bore. The video was good for a chuckle though. Not that I am saying what he does doesn’t work for him. But realize that of all the graphite advice you’ll get from pros here... you won’t hear any of them tell you to pack your wheel bore with a graphite paste.
     
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  9. Chief

    Chief PWD Royalty

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    +1
     
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  10. Brian Stanley

    Brian Stanley Pinewood Ninja Pro Racer

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    I tried this, it does work like it shows in the video and packs in around the bore. However, in order for it to be effective you would have to do it and install the wheels and then not touch the car again. So no tuning, test runs etc. The graphite comes out pretty quickly, at least it did for me.

    The video is several years old with lots of views but basically no comments. Plus I've never seen this method mentioned anywhere else (here included). These things to me suggest that it's a neat idea, but of little value.
     
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  11. e/o

    e/o Pinewood Ninja

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    To FDM’s point, I am curious if burnishing should be done only with graphite and not graphite/moly blend, since graphite is softer than plastic and moly is harder than at least many plastics.
     
  12. txchemist

    txchemist National Contender

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    Remember, Molybdenum disulfide (or moly) is what the moly in the mixture is, and it acts a lot like the graphite. Look at some of the pro ski wax formulas and you will find both moly and graphite and often Teflon also.
    If you do a sealant in the bore, that surface is often harder than the plastic and will hold burnished graphite& moly better.
     
  13. Bubblegum

    Bubblegum Pinewood Ninja

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    I wonder if the next car that runs on the lane finds a clump of graphite on the track.
     
  14. e/o

    e/o Pinewood Ninja

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    Thanks, that's helpful. I did not know it was disulfide.
     
  15. Brian Stanley

    Brian Stanley Pinewood Ninja Pro Racer

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    When I first saw the graphite/alcohol thing above I thought about doing that but with epoxy and graphite. But then I figured that would be considered a bushing and against the Scout rules. Maybe I'll try it on an outlaw car!
     
  16. DuckOfAllTrades

    DuckOfAllTrades League Racer

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    I'm not sure if my way is the right way, or if there is a right way, but to burnish, it put some graphite into the wheels. Then I find a qtip, smaller diameter. I don't have a pair of calipers, but I can usually spot the smaller ones. I test them out in the bores to be sure, they shouldn't be to tight. Then I cut off an end of the qtip so it's at an angle, chuck it in the drill and take a piece of paper. I fold the paper in half and pour a little graphite in the seams near the edge. Then I fold it around the qtip in the drill, and spin it for a little to get the stalk coated. I then insert it into the bore, which I've already added some graphite too, and spin on low for a few seconds. Add some more graphite, repeat. Sometimes I simply pour graphite into the wheel bores, take a #43 drill bit, insert the smooth side into the bores and roll it around applying a little pressure. I repeat this process a few times. Sometimes I do both. I usually don't use the nicer graphite I have for this.

    Do be CAREFUL with the drill/qtip in the bores. You don't want to go too long or too fast for fear of enlarging the bores or melting them. Go slow. It doesn't take long.

    As I said, no expert! Just doing how I interpret it.

    To help even more, when I add the axles, I'll put a little more graphite on the hub, insert the axle, take the pointed end and work it around a bit. Work the head into the hub to help burnish graphite in that area. Again, no idea if this works! But it's what I do. I do the same thing with the other side of the wheel, pouring in some graphite and working from the other end, twisting and applying pressure all directions on the axle.

    There is no right way. Find what works for you! Don't waste your time with alcohol/graphite business.

    After you assemble the car, I add more graphite from both sides and spin the wheels. Some people like to break the graphite in by running the car once or twice, or rolling it around a little on a smooth surface. I personally like to let the race day do the break in. I'm not concerned with the first run or two, usually fast enough to make it up on the other heats and get out of the den races to the pack where speed matters most. While other cars slow down, our cars have a few more runs left. However, this depends on the size of your pack. If you not running many heats, probably better to break in before hand.
     
  17. Chief

    Chief PWD Royalty

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    Graphite...:eek: yuk! But in the way back machine, before I found this forum, I did it the same way as Duck
     
  18. DuckOfAllTrades

    DuckOfAllTrades League Racer

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    I’m with you Chief! Hate the stuff, wish it didn’t exist. Cub Scouts need to get with the times, graphite is an antiquated thing if the past.OIL!
     
  19. Pinewood Outlaw

    Pinewood Outlaw Workshop Leader

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    Some scout districts do allow oil....there starting to come around.
     
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  20. slipstream

    slipstream Pinewood Ninja Pro Racer

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    my process is very similar to duck of all trades small qtip and drill. I use a graphite I got from winderby (I have a lot of it not as good as dd4h) to start the burnishing. Then I use dd4h graphite and repeat the process. I add more after putting the wheel give it 1 spin test. If its not very quite or if it wont spin good, I take it off and do it again (1 or 2 more get it there). I make all the others just as quite if not more then assemble the car and always add more on race day.
     

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